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	<title>Comments on: IE 7 &#8211; is catching up good enough?</title>
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	<link>http://robertnyman.com/2006/09/19/ie-7-is-catching-up-good-enough/</link>
	<description>Web development and Internet trends</description>
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		<title>By: Internet Explorer 7 &#124; Just Write</title>
		<link>http://robertnyman.com/2006/09/19/ie-7-is-catching-up-good-enough/#comment-617197</link>
		<dc:creator>Internet Explorer 7 &#124; Just Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 15:17:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=488#comment-617197</guid>
		<description>[...] the other hand, many people argue that catching up is [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the other hand, many people argue that catching up is [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: CiPow &#187; Blog Archive &#187; [link] IE 7 - is catching up good enough? - RobertÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s talk</title>
		<link>http://robertnyman.com/2006/09/19/ie-7-is-catching-up-good-enough/#comment-83219</link>
		<dc:creator>CiPow &#187; Blog Archive &#187; [link] IE 7 - is catching up good enough? - RobertÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s talk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 23:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=488#comment-83219</guid>
		<description>[...] post by John Musser and software by Elliott [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] post by John Musser and software by Elliott [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: CiPow &#187; Blog Archive &#187; IE 7 - is catching up good enough? - RobertÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s talk</title>
		<link>http://robertnyman.com/2006/09/19/ie-7-is-catching-up-good-enough/#comment-83217</link>
		<dc:creator>CiPow &#187; Blog Archive &#187; IE 7 - is catching up good enough? - RobertÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s talk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 23:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=488#comment-83217</guid>
		<description>[...] post by Brian Benzinger and software by Elliott [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] post by Brian Benzinger and software by Elliott [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: TechnikwÃƒÂ¼rze - Design &#38; Webstandards Podcast  &#187; Blog Archiv   &#187; TechnikwÃƒÂ¼rze 41 - viele Infos</title>
		<link>http://robertnyman.com/2006/09/19/ie-7-is-catching-up-good-enough/#comment-12138</link>
		<dc:creator>TechnikwÃƒÂ¼rze - Design &#38; Webstandards Podcast  &#187; Blog Archiv   &#187; TechnikwÃƒÂ¼rze 41 - viele Infos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 10:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=488#comment-12138</guid>
		<description>[...] ge von Robert Nyman und Roger Johansson interessante und emotionale Diskussionen aus:  	 		IE 7 &#8211; is catching up good enough? &#8211; RobertÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s talk 		IE 7 is [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ge von Robert Nyman und Roger Johansson interessante und emotionale Diskussionen aus:  	 		IE 7 &#8211; is catching up good enough? &#8211; RobertÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s talk 		IE 7 is [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Internet Explorer 7: Stand der Dinge - Jowra - Webdesign Ã‚Â· Photo Ã‚Â· Artwork</title>
		<link>http://robertnyman.com/2006/09/19/ie-7-is-catching-up-good-enough/#comment-10938</link>
		<dc:creator>Internet Explorer 7: Stand der Dinge - Jowra - Webdesign Ã‚Â· Photo Ã‚Â· Artwork</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=488#comment-10938</guid>
		<description>[...] on nicht mehr lange auf sich warten lassen. Robert Nyman (schÃƒÂ¶n, daÃƒÅ¸ er wieder schreibt) bedauert dies, denn wie er vÃƒÂ¶llig zu recht feststellt, ist der n [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on nicht mehr lange auf sich warten lassen. Robert Nyman (schÃƒÂ¶n, daÃƒÅ¸ er wieder schreibt) bedauert dies, denn wie er vÃƒÂ¶llig zu recht feststellt, ist der n [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Pig Pen - Web Standards Compliant Web Design Blog  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Better But Still Lagging</title>
		<link>http://robertnyman.com/2006/09/19/ie-7-is-catching-up-good-enough/#comment-10886</link>
		<dc:creator>Pig Pen - Web Standards Compliant Web Design Blog  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Better But Still Lagging</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:45:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=488#comment-10886</guid>
		<description>[...]  				Better But Still Lagging is Roger&#8217;s take on Internet Explorer 7 and he links to Robert Nyman asking whether catching up is good enough?  	 					 				 				 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  				Better But Still Lagging is Roger&#8217;s take on Internet Explorer 7 and he links to Robert Nyman asking whether catching up is good enough?  	 					 				 				 [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://robertnyman.com/2006/09/19/ie-7-is-catching-up-good-enough/#comment-10885</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=488#comment-10885</guid>
		<description>I totally agree with you: when IE7 will be released, it will be old. Microsoft should have done better with this product.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree with you: when IE7 will be released, it will be old. Microsoft should have done better with this product.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://robertnyman.com/2006/09/19/ie-7-is-catching-up-good-enough/#comment-10884</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=488#comment-10884</guid>
		<description>Ilija,

I generally agree with what you&#039;re saying and naturally I&#039;m for iterative develpoment as well. But, like I stated above, I think they should&#039;ve released an IE version &lt;em&gt;long&lt;/em&gt; ago with security and UI fixes and then put focus on releasing something that actually isn&#039;t behind when it&#039;s due for release.

The risk with too much and frequent iteration is that we will have a lot of sub-releases with different levels of support, and that doesn&#039;t make anyone happier (and exactly in one aspect I feel Opera has failed).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ilija,</p>
<p>I generally agree with what you&#8217;re saying and naturally I&#8217;m for iterative develpoment as well. But, like I stated above, I think they should&#8217;ve released an IE version <em>long</em> ago with security and UI fixes and then put focus on releasing something that actually isn&#8217;t behind when it&#8217;s due for release.</p>
<p>The risk with too much and frequent iteration is that we will have a lot of sub-releases with different levels of support, and that doesn&#8217;t make anyone happier (and exactly in one aspect I feel Opera has failed).</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Filter for 29/9 2006 - Felt</title>
		<link>http://robertnyman.com/2006/09/19/ie-7-is-catching-up-good-enough/#comment-10878</link>
		<dc:creator>Filter for 29/9 2006 - Felt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 05:41:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=488#comment-10878</guid>
		<description>[...] 8221; That&#8217;s dangerous: Business is business, corporate loyalty is fleeting at best. Robert Nyman: IE 7 - is catching up good enough? When IE7 arrives, how goo [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 8221; That&#8217;s dangerous: Business is business, corporate loyalty is fleeting at best. Robert Nyman: IE 7 &#8211; is catching up good enough? When IE7 arrives, how goo [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Internet Explorer 7 und CSS 2.1 UnterstÃƒÂ¼tzung #2 // Jeriko One</title>
		<link>http://robertnyman.com/2006/09/19/ie-7-is-catching-up-good-enough/#comment-10877</link>
		<dc:creator>Internet Explorer 7 und CSS 2.1 UnterstÃƒÂ¼tzung #2 // Jeriko One</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 05:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=488#comment-10877</guid>
		<description>[...] plorer 7 gut aussehen muss. Schluss Ich schlieÃƒÅ¸e mich der Meinung von Roger Johansson und Robert Nyman an [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] plorer 7 gut aussehen muss. Schluss Ich schlieÃƒÅ¸e mich der Meinung von Roger Johansson und Robert Nyman an [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ilija Studen</title>
		<link>http://robertnyman.com/2006/09/19/ie-7-is-catching-up-good-enough/#comment-10874</link>
		<dc:creator>Ilija Studen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 03:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=488#comment-10874</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a developer and author of one open source project (its called &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.activecollab.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;activeCollab&lt;/a&gt;). One of the first thing I learned is that you should never try to fix everything. Big versions with a lot of changes are bad idea. Use iterative approach. If you don&#039;t you&#039;ll:

1. Keep the people waiting for long time. They don&#039;t like that and instead of being patient and listening to your excuses and stories about how great new version will be they&#039;ll look elsewhere pretty soon.
2. You&#039;ll end up with too much new code. New code is bad... It breaks because it does not have the proper &quot;mileage&quot;. Smaller versions let you see how code handles in production, not on your test machines. Priceless!
3. You&#039;ll end up just talking: &quot;In new version we&#039;ll have ...&quot;, &quot;That bug is marked as wontfix because we have a better solution in new version&quot; (months away!) etc.

So, my vote is for iterative development process. Bring something to the table and let the children play. I know that IE is far more important that some open source collaboration tool, but still the fact that big versions are bad idea stands.

Here&#039;s a pattern that works: &lt;b&gt;Fix urgent issues (security and bad UI in case of IE6), add some new features to keep kids happy, release, repeat.&lt;/b&gt;

Hope it makes sense and sorry for my poor English.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a developer and author of one open source project (its called <a href="http://www.activecollab.com" rel="nofollow">activeCollab</a>). One of the first thing I learned is that you should never try to fix everything. Big versions with a lot of changes are bad idea. Use iterative approach. If you don&#8217;t you&#8217;ll:</p>
<p>1. Keep the people waiting for long time. They don&#8217;t like that and instead of being patient and listening to your excuses and stories about how great new version will be they&#8217;ll look elsewhere pretty soon.<br />
2. You&#8217;ll end up with too much new code. New code is bad&#8230; It breaks because it does not have the proper &#8220;mileage&#8221;. Smaller versions let you see how code handles in production, not on your test machines. Priceless!<br />
3. You&#8217;ll end up just talking: &#8220;In new version we&#8217;ll have &#8230;&#8221;, &#8220;That bug is marked as wontfix because we have a better solution in new version&#8221; (months away!) etc.</p>
<p>So, my vote is for iterative development process. Bring something to the table and let the children play. I know that IE is far more important that some open source collaboration tool, but still the fact that big versions are bad idea stands.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a pattern that works: <b>Fix urgent issues (security and bad UI in case of IE6), add some new features to keep kids happy, release, repeat.</b></p>
<p>Hope it makes sense and sorry for my poor English.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Design - standards based web design, development and training &#187; Some links for light reading (29/9/06)</title>
		<link>http://robertnyman.com/2006/09/19/ie-7-is-catching-up-good-enough/#comment-10825</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Design - standards based web design, development and training &#187; Some links for light reading (29/9/06)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=488#comment-10825</guid>
		<description>[...] mats highlighting 	12 Lessons for Those Afraid of CSS and Standards 	Long Live the Q Tag  	IE 7 - is catching up good enough? 	The Web API Working Gr [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] mats highlighting 	12 Lessons for Those Afraid of CSS and Standards 	Long Live the Q Tag  	IE 7 &#8211; is catching up good enough? 	The Web API Working Gr [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tip(z) &#187; FÃƒÂ¶rÃƒÂ¤ndringar i IE7</title>
		<link>http://robertnyman.com/2006/09/19/ie-7-is-catching-up-good-enough/#comment-10583</link>
		<dc:creator>Tip(z) &#187; FÃƒÂ¶rÃƒÂ¤ndringar i IE7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=488#comment-10583</guid>
		<description>[...] an skriver om  fÃƒÂ¶rÃƒÂ¤ndringarna i IE7 nÃƒÂ¤r den kommer. Han skriver i ett senare inlÃƒÂ¤gg om vad han (inte) tycker om IE7 nÃƒÂ¤r den vÃƒÂ¤l kommer.  	 	                    [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] an skriver om  fÃƒÂ¶rÃƒÂ¤ndringarna i IE7 nÃƒÂ¤r den kommer. Han skriver i ett senare inlÃƒÂ¤gg om vad han (inte) tycker om IE7 nÃƒÂ¤r den vÃƒÂ¤l kommer.  	 	                    [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://robertnyman.com/2006/09/19/ie-7-is-catching-up-good-enough/#comment-10033</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Sep 2006 06:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=488#comment-10033</guid>
		<description>Hayden,

I&#039;d like an equal web browser market with at least two different web browsers being used by a majority of web users, to spur competition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hayden,</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like an equal web browser market with at least two different web browsers being used by a majority of web users, to spur competition.</p>
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		<title>By: Hayden Noonan [Duste]</title>
		<link>http://robertnyman.com/2006/09/19/ie-7-is-catching-up-good-enough/#comment-10013</link>
		<dc:creator>Hayden Noonan [Duste]</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 23:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=488#comment-10013</guid>
		<description>More and more people, not necessarily web-know-alls, are finding Firefox and continuing to use it. I wait upon the day when Firefox has a bigger market share than Microsoft.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More and more people, not necessarily web-know-alls, are finding Firefox and continuing to use it. I wait upon the day when Firefox has a bigger market share than Microsoft.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://robertnyman.com/2006/09/19/ie-7-is-catching-up-good-enough/#comment-9946</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:53:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=488#comment-9946</guid>
		<description>Devon, Carl,

The problem with that is that if your profession is to deliver a web site, then it&#039;s your obligation to make sure that it works in as many web browsers as possible; especially the one that has the majority of end users.

Therefore, web developing is very often about finding the common nominating level.

And Carl, even if IE 7 is working fine for you with all web sites out there, it doesn&#039;t really say if it has held back web developers from delivering an even better web site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Devon, Carl,</p>
<p>The problem with that is that if your profession is to deliver a web site, then it&#8217;s your obligation to make sure that it works in as many web browsers as possible; especially the one that has the majority of end users.</p>
<p>Therefore, web developing is very often about finding the common nominating level.</p>
<p>And Carl, even if IE 7 is working fine for you with all web sites out there, it doesn&#8217;t really say if it has held back web developers from delivering an even better web site.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl</title>
		<link>http://robertnyman.com/2006/09/19/ie-7-is-catching-up-good-enough/#comment-9939</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=488#comment-9939</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d have to agree with Devon there. I&#039;m an IE user although I have FireFox installed because i&#039;m a web developer and i&#039;ve been using IE7 happily since beta 2. 

The only notable website that appeared &#039;broken&#039; was last.fm, which has now sorted itself out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d have to agree with Devon there. I&#8217;m an IE user although I have FireFox installed because i&#8217;m a web developer and i&#8217;ve been using IE7 happily since beta 2. </p>
<p>The only notable website that appeared &#8216;broken&#8217; was last.fm, which has now sorted itself out.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://robertnyman.com/2006/09/19/ie-7-is-catching-up-good-enough/#comment-9817</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Sep 2006 06:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=488#comment-9817</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comments.

I understand and respect the point of addressing security vulnerabilities, but then I would&#039;ve rather seen that they would have released an IE 6.5 a year or more ago, fixing just that, and &lt;em&gt;then&lt;/em&gt; focusing on releasing a good web browser supporting a lot of standards and possibilities for web developers.

Like Carl Camera says above, sure it&#039;s good to decrease the IE 6 users as soon as possible, but how long will we be grateful for that? Trust me, about a year from now we will bitch about all the various shortcomings of IE 7 while all other web browsers will be better (in terms of web standards and CSS support).

And sure, Microsoft will have a continous development of IE, but still, it will definitely take some time before IE 7.5/IE 8. And &lt;em&gt;if&lt;/em&gt; such a version is released fairly soon, then we will have  at least three current different versions of IE to test in (if we don&#039;t count IE 5). So, in my opinion, it won&#039;t make my life better with adding even more testing to my development plans.

I say: Microsoft, release the best web browser in the market, and make your competitors catch up for a change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comments.</p>
<p>I understand and respect the point of addressing security vulnerabilities, but then I would&#8217;ve rather seen that they would have released an IE 6.5 a year or more ago, fixing just that, and <em>then</em> focusing on releasing a good web browser supporting a lot of standards and possibilities for web developers.</p>
<p>Like Carl Camera says above, sure it&#8217;s good to decrease the IE 6 users as soon as possible, but how long will we be grateful for that? Trust me, about a year from now we will bitch about all the various shortcomings of IE 7 while all other web browsers will be better (in terms of web standards and CSS support).</p>
<p>And sure, Microsoft will have a continous development of IE, but still, it will definitely take some time before IE 7.5/IE 8. And <em>if</em> such a version is released fairly soon, then we will have  at least three current different versions of IE to test in (if we don&#8217;t count IE 5). So, in my opinion, it won&#8217;t make my life better with adding even more testing to my development plans.</p>
<p>I say: Microsoft, release the best web browser in the market, and make your competitors catch up for a change.</p>
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		<title>By: Devon</title>
		<link>http://robertnyman.com/2006/09/19/ie-7-is-catching-up-good-enough/#comment-9769</link>
		<dc:creator>Devon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:42:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=488#comment-9769</guid>
		<description>If people would use these CSS or DOM or XHTML abilities that IE 7 can&#039;t render...suddenly it would be painfully obvious to Microsoft and average Joe users, that IE 7 isn&#039;t very useful and they need to switch browsers. Since nobody pushes the 800 pound gorilla...it remains an 800 pound gorilla even if it&#039;s become all fat and no more muscle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If people would use these CSS or DOM or XHTML abilities that IE 7 can&#8217;t render&#8230;suddenly it would be painfully obvious to Microsoft and average Joe users, that IE 7 isn&#8217;t very useful and they need to switch browsers. Since nobody pushes the 800 pound gorilla&#8230;it remains an 800 pound gorilla even if it&#8217;s become all fat and no more muscle.</p>
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		<title>By: ÃƒÂrni Gunnar</title>
		<link>http://robertnyman.com/2006/09/19/ie-7-is-catching-up-good-enough/#comment-9748</link>
		<dc:creator>ÃƒÂrni Gunnar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 17:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=488#comment-9748</guid>
		<description>Microsoft has commited to continued browser development after IE7 comes out. There is a roadmap already in place for the next release, and I am confident that it will be catching up sooner than we think.

And contrary to some comments here, this release has not been in development since the release of IE6. This development cycle is much, much shorter than that.

I am very, very happy with this release of IE and it definately shows signs in the right direction. Hoping to reach perfection in IE8 :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Microsoft has commited to continued browser development after IE7 comes out. There is a roadmap already in place for the next release, and I am confident that it will be catching up sooner than we think.</p>
<p>And contrary to some comments here, this release has not been in development since the release of IE6. This development cycle is much, much shorter than that.</p>
<p>I am very, very happy with this release of IE and it definately shows signs in the right direction. Hoping to reach perfection in IE8 <img src='http://robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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