Comments on: The alt attribute is NOT for tooltips http://robertnyman.com/2009/05/07/the-alt-attribute-is-not-for-tooltips/ Web development and Internet trends Wed, 17 Mar 2010 04:15:00 +0100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Ken Whitley http://robertnyman.com/2009/05/07/the-alt-attribute-is-not-for-tooltips/#comment-607968 Ken Whitley Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:24:58 +0000 http://robertnyman.com/?p=1286#comment-607968 If you're not checking your website for functionality with images disabled, you aren't even TRYING for accessibility, and may as well admit that it's of no concern to you and your employer. If you’re not checking your website for functionality with images disabled, you aren’t even TRYING for accessibility, and may as well admit that it’s of no concern to you and your employer.

]]> By: Les préoccupations d’un chef de projet Internet… » L’attribut ALT n’est pas le TITLE ! http://robertnyman.com/2009/05/07/the-alt-attribute-is-not-for-tooltips/#comment-589781 Les préoccupations d’un chef de projet Internet… » L’attribut ALT n’est pas le TITLE ! Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:07:01 +0000 http://robertnyman.com/?p=1286#comment-589781 [...] Je vous propose ici une traduction de l’article de Robert Nyman, sur la mauvaise utilisation de l’attribut html ALT. Pour les amoureux de la langue de Shakespeare, l’article original est ici. [...] [...] Je vous propose ici une traduction de l’article de Robert Nyman, sur la mauvaise utilisation de l’attribut html ALT. Pour les amoureux de la langue de Shakespeare, l’article original est ici. [...]

]]> By: Robert Nyman http://robertnyman.com/2009/05/07/the-alt-attribute-is-not-for-tooltips/#comment-581943 Robert Nyman Mon, 11 May 2009 08:02:47 +0000 http://robertnyman.com/?p=1286#comment-581943 Alejandro, Good! :-) Alejandro,

Good! :-)

]]> By: Alejandro Cuervo http://robertnyman.com/2009/05/07/the-alt-attribute-is-not-for-tooltips/#comment-581552 Alejandro Cuervo Sun, 10 May 2009 00:59:47 +0000 http://robertnyman.com/?p=1286#comment-581552 yes yes

]]> By: Robert Nyman http://robertnyman.com/2009/05/07/the-alt-attribute-is-not-for-tooltips/#comment-581378 Robert Nyman Sat, 09 May 2009 02:24:17 +0000 http://robertnyman.com/?p=1286#comment-581378 Diego, Oh, absolutely! The <code>alt</code> attribute is indeed useful, as long as it is used the way it is meant to be. Diego,

Oh, absolutely! The alt attribute is indeed useful, as long as it is used the way it is meant to be.

]]> By: Diego Perini http://robertnyman.com/2009/05/07/the-alt-attribute-is-not-for-tooltips/#comment-581351 Diego Perini Fri, 08 May 2009 22:51:39 +0000 http://robertnyman.com/?p=1286#comment-581351 The ALT attribute, also wrongly used as stated, is actually very useful on AREA, IMG and INPUT elements. It is part of the specs. It should aid textual UA to render alternate content and so said, to have a mean to reach visual impaired users with speech etc...(and for the other uses you already mentioned, less important). We don't have to ditch useful things having a real scope, we need to ditch our habit to use whatever comes easy in a wrong but seemingly useful way, it will not last long ! The ALT attribute, also wrongly used as stated, is actually very useful on AREA, IMG and INPUT elements. It is part of the specs.

It should aid textual UA to render alternate content and so said, to have a mean to reach visual impaired users with speech etc…(and for the other uses you already mentioned, less important).

We don’t have to ditch useful things having a real scope, we need to ditch our habit to use whatever comes easy in a wrong but seemingly useful way, it will not last long !

]]> By: Robert Nyman http://robertnyman.com/2009/05/07/the-alt-attribute-is-not-for-tooltips/#comment-581321 Robert Nyman Fri, 08 May 2009 18:29:16 +0000 http://robertnyman.com/?p=1286#comment-581321 mdmadph, Yeah, me neither. :-) mdmadph,

Yeah, me neither. :-)

]]> By: mdmadph http://robertnyman.com/2009/05/07/the-alt-attribute-is-not-for-tooltips/#comment-581315 mdmadph Fri, 08 May 2009 17:54:50 +0000 http://robertnyman.com/?p=1286#comment-581315 Wow -- I had thought they'd <i>never</i> get that one fixed. Wow — I had thought they’d never get that one fixed.

]]> By: Robert Nyman http://robertnyman.com/2009/05/07/the-alt-attribute-is-not-for-tooltips/#comment-581221 Robert Nyman Fri, 08 May 2009 08:43:20 +0000 http://robertnyman.com/?p=1286#comment-581221 I thought you'd agree. :-) Andrea, Yeah, I've seen some people using <code>alt</code> attributes on links, believeing it will be a tooltip. Hiwever I agree with the stance that if you have, you have to fix the code - no extra script to cover up for that. Morgan, Oh, man, that <em>will</em> haunt you! :-) icaaq, Great point! That surely has to be stopped too, and most commonly I see that as part of the core of some CMSs. Horrendous! David, Yeah, yeah, I know... :-) I thought you’d agree. :-)

Andrea,

Yeah, I’ve seen some people using alt attributes on links, believeing it will be a tooltip. Hiwever I agree with the stance that if you have, you have to fix the code – no extra script to cover up for that.

Morgan,

Oh, man, that will haunt you! :-)

icaaq,

Great point! That surely has to be stopped too, and most commonly I see that as part of the core of some CMSs. Horrendous!

David,

Yeah, yeah, I know… :-)

]]> By: David Naylor http://robertnyman.com/2009/05/07/the-alt-attribute-is-not-for-tooltips/#comment-581215 David Naylor Fri, 08 May 2009 08:23:32 +0000 http://robertnyman.com/?p=1286#comment-581215 Dude, you're preaching to the choir! :) Dude, you’re preaching to the choir! :)

]]> By: icaaq http://robertnyman.com/2009/05/07/the-alt-attribute-is-not-for-tooltips/#comment-581051 icaaq Thu, 07 May 2009 20:58:55 +0000 http://robertnyman.com/?p=1286#comment-581051 Great post Robert! Another thing regarding the title-attribute is the "Supplementing link text with the title attribute"-issue.[1] That's when the same text appears in the link text and the title attribute. A very annoying thing I see quite often. 1. http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/H33 Great post Robert!

Another thing regarding the title-attribute is the “Supplementing link text with the title attribute”-issue.[1] That’s when the same text appears in the link text and the title attribute. A very annoying thing I see quite often.

1. http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/H33

]]> By: Morgan Roderick http://robertnyman.com/2009/05/07/the-alt-attribute-is-not-for-tooltips/#comment-581050 Morgan Roderick Thu, 07 May 2009 20:56:12 +0000 http://robertnyman.com/?p=1286#comment-581050 I am sure it's going to come back to haunt me, but I think that with IE8 maybe Microsoft has finally seen the light and in a few years, the web will be a nicer place. It shouldn't be too hard for Microsoft to update IE7 and IE6 with this behaviour as well, but I guess that'll never happen ... EVEN if they admit it being a bug. I am sure it’s going to come back to haunt me, but I think that with IE8 maybe Microsoft has finally seen the light and in a few years, the web will be a nicer place.

It shouldn’t be too hard for Microsoft to update IE7 and IE6 with this behaviour as well, but I guess that’ll never happen … EVEN if they admit it being a bug.

]]> By: Andreas http://robertnyman.com/2009/05/07/the-alt-attribute-is-not-for-tooltips/#comment-581017 Andreas Thu, 07 May 2009 19:04:53 +0000 http://robertnyman.com/?p=1286#comment-581017 Yes! Yes!

]]> By: Christopher Papastefanou http://robertnyman.com/2009/05/07/the-alt-attribute-is-not-for-tooltips/#comment-580969 Christopher Papastefanou Thu, 07 May 2009 16:07:47 +0000 http://robertnyman.com/?p=1286#comment-580969 Yes! Been saying it for years, myself. Yes!

Been saying it for years, myself.

]]> By: Andrea Giammarchi http://robertnyman.com/2009/05/07/the-alt-attribute-is-not-for-tooltips/#comment-580963 Andrea Giammarchi Thu, 07 May 2009 15:52:59 +0000 http://robertnyman.com/?p=1286#comment-580963 @Andreas, that is a fallback for users expecting tooltips over links or images (as you spotted) ... which means we write W3 code but IE6 or 7 users will still read the tooltip. It does not matter if it is an IE error, they expect the tooltip over the link. So, accordingly, I am more for "no more tooltips? just change browser" rather than "impossible or expensive" fixes. got my point? @Andreas, that is a fallback for users expecting tooltips over links or images (as you spotted) … which means we write W3 code but IE6 or 7 users will still read the tooltip.
It does not matter if it is an IE error, they expect the tooltip over the link. So, accordingly, I am more for “no more tooltips? just change browser” rather than “impossible or expensive” fixes. got my point?

]]> By: Andreas http://robertnyman.com/2009/05/07/the-alt-attribute-is-not-for-tooltips/#comment-580959 Andreas Thu, 07 May 2009 15:44:19 +0000 http://robertnyman.com/?p=1286#comment-580959 Nice that they've finally fixed it. @Andrea - But your fix would turn all the title-attributes into alt-attributes if I'm not mistaken - how would that fix it? The problem isn't that IE _doesn't_ display title-attributes, it's that it _does_ display alt-attributes. Also, I think that code should be running on img-elements rather than a-elements, but I guess that's just a typo. I suppose instead just removing all the alt-attributes in IE would "solve" it, but I for one can't be arsed to put in workarounds for that browser anymore... Nice that they’ve finally fixed it.

@Andrea – But your fix would turn all the title-attributes into alt-attributes if I’m not mistaken – how would that fix it? The problem isn’t that IE _doesn’t_ display title-attributes, it’s that it _does_ display alt-attributes.

Also, I think that code should be running on img-elements rather than a-elements, but I guess that’s just a typo.

I suppose instead just removing all the alt-attributes in IE would “solve” it, but I for one can’t be arsed to put in workarounds for that browser anymore…

]]> By: Andrea Giammarchi http://robertnyman.com/2009/05/07/the-alt-attribute-is-not-for-tooltips/#comment-580956 Andrea Giammarchi Thu, 07 May 2009 15:25:36 +0000 http://robertnyman.com/?p=1286#comment-580956 sorry, this after the if ... <code>a[i].alt = a[i].title;</code> sorry, this after the if …
a[i].alt = a[i].title;

]]> By: Andrea Giammarchi http://robertnyman.com/2009/05/07/the-alt-attribute-is-not-for-tooltips/#comment-580955 Andrea Giammarchi Thu, 07 May 2009 15:24:59 +0000 http://robertnyman.com/?p=1286#comment-580955 The problem is that without DOM prototypes and other standard features it is truly difficult to fallback with compatibility (IE5 to 7) An unobtrusive but expensive workaround could be something like: <code> attachEvent("onload", function(){ for(var a = document.getElementsByTagName("a"), i = 0, length = a.length; i < length; ++i) if(!a[i].alt && a[i].title) a[i].alt && a[i].title; setTimeout(arguments.callee, 5000); }); </code> but again, adding stuff like this to IE will simply mean to make the slowest browser even slower so I do not agree that much about these kind of workarounds. In few words, we cannot fix IE backward, it is better to go on and let user update their browsers, imo. The problem is that without DOM prototypes and other standard features it is truly difficult to fallback with compatibility (IE5 to 7)

An unobtrusive but expensive workaround could be something like:

attachEvent("onload", function(){
for(var a = document.getElementsByTagName("a"), i = 0, length = a.length; i < length; ++i)
if(!a[i].alt && a[i].title)
a[i].alt && a[i].title;
setTimeout(arguments.callee, 5000);
});

but again, adding stuff like this to IE will simply mean to make the slowest browser even slower so I do not agree that much about these kind of workarounds. In few words, we cannot fix IE backward, it is better to go on and let user update their browsers, imo.

]]>